Tomlinson-Tape 2—March/08/02

This was a follow up conversation in regard to the original recording of Jan/02/02.

I attempted to get an admission from Kathy Tomlinson that she was personally responsible for the admission from Tidsbury that Murrin was an informant and what the procedure was to do so again. I also wanted a  reason for this not being followed up on so that it could not be said that this never did happen or exist, and who or what caused this to go this way.  As I was making this call from a pay phone, a man moved over beside me and appeared to be taking some interest in the call. I was not comfortable enough to speak freely with names and details but some important information was obtained anyway, namely the fact Murrin was an informant is being kept off the record. I used the false name Derek Paul for these conversations.

D-    um Derek Paul here,

K--  Hi

D--  Hi how you doin?

K-    Good how are you

D-    -Good Good ! Iv’e been seeing you’ve been getting around a bit lately, down to the Olympics and that.

K---Yaa that’s right  ha ha .

D-   Uh huh, are you busy right now, you got a couple of minutes?

      K--- Yaa I can talk.

D-    Are you in a fairly good spot, a private location.

      K---Um ,you can call me back on a hard line if you want.

D-    -Oh, but you feel your o k where you are there, you can talk?

      K---Uhm yaa, can you hold on for a minute?

Phone rings and I wait.

D---Ok Umm I did a little bit of checking around since I talked to you last, I was going to send you some stuff but, I uh, some things happened here that I got a little bit concerned about so I backed off for a while. Now what’s happened is there’s another situation very similar to the last one.

K---Which one?

D-    -Uhm, what we were talking about before.

K---I Know, I know what’s the other situation?

D-    -Oh the other one is  another one of Tidsbury’s informants, he’ll be coming up for court in May out in Alberta.

K---Yes

D-    -For the same crime that Murrin was charged with.- So any ways I don’t want you to do anything yet but again I want to do just what you did last time only I would try to find a way to make it so that it could be used for evidence this time

      K---Right.

D-    -And that’s what I wanted to ask you about, this is still a case that has not gone to trial yet. And…

K-  -Some body, I’m confused ,somebody is going to be charged with something that someone---

D-    -someone is charged.

      K---With what?

D-    -The same crime that Murrin was, abduction and murder of a child.

K---Of  Mindy Tran?

D-    -No, another child.

K---And.

D-    -So what you did last time, I don’t know how you did it, to arrange to ask directly to Tidsbury, so I’d like to ask that same question, only about this other person to see if he would admit it, and if he does, I don’t know, like, last time you told me it was off the record right?

K---Uh huh yaa,

D-    -Ok is there anyway of asking, getting a question like that asked about another person and having it on the record.

K---Maybe, but I wouldn’t necessarily have the time or the where with all to do it, I don’t even know what the case is or anything.

D-    -Uh huh, its basically exactly same as Murrin.

K---But I don’t know anything about it myself right.

D-    -True, right OK now, say, if I was to contact a reporter out where this was happening, and I wanted them to do what you did, is there a procedure, do they have to go to their boss to ok it or can I just talk to the---

      K---No No, you can just ask a reporter, where’s this happening?

D-    -In Lethbridge.

K---Yaa you can just call somebody in Lethbridge.

D-    -So a reporter would be able to do the same thing that you did?

K---Yes

D-    -You don’t have to approve questions like that?

K---No, No.

D-    -O.K. um, so you basically just asked that reporter to ask the question, that’s all there is to this.

K---Yaa

D-    -O.K. now that last one, when they say that its off the record, are you obligated to obey that?

K-    -Yes

D-    -Right, nothing you can do even if it was for evidence?

K---Uh Huh,

D---Oh is that right aye, so if Mr. Tidsbury says the same thing to the reporter there’s no ways around that that you know of?

      K---No not that I know of, no I mean, off the record is off the record.

D-    -Hum, Ok I just saw on the TV, on your own CTV there, that somebody was asking Gordon Campbell some thing and he asked for it to be off the record and the reporter says well no if your going to say something its on the record whatever you say and..—

K---So right, if you do have that conversation and someone says off the record and you agree then it’s off the record if you don’t then it’s not.

D-    -Oh I see, it’s whether you agree to it or not.

K---Well Of course, I probably should go though cause I got a whole bunch of stuff going on and not sure what you’re referring to. Hopefully I’ve helped.

D-   -Uh, huh, well any ways I just wanted some one to do exactly what you did.

      K---Not a problem, you could easily get that, if you gave them, if they knew what you were talking about, like what the details are.

D-    -Uh huh right and it was just the part about it being on the record and not, because I didn’t want to run into the same thing as what we ran into –

K---Right

D-    -You know you have the guy admit something and then not be able to use it isn’t really what I wanted.

K---Right, right

D-    -So anyways, if I just talk to a reporter and say that, just don’t agree to that.

K---That’s right. That’s right

D-   -That’s the only difference then.

K---That’s right.

D---Ok I’m going to give it a try,

K---Ok

D---Other than that there’s a meeting that is going to take place out in Van with some attorneys and some police officers that are going to be talking about this. Would you like to listen to this? I think a press person would be allowed, anyways the excuse, I don’t know if you would want to do it or not, would be an off the record conversation which would include some of the things I’m talking about. Are you allowed to do that?

K---I don’t know, I don’t know what this meeting, I have to know more about what you’re talking about, I don’t know what this meeting, who’s there or what it’s about or--

D-   -Some attorneys of mine, and police officers that are looking into this.

K---Looking into what?

D-    -All of the things that I told you about previously, All of it.

K---Your lawyer is meeting with them?

D---That’s right.

K---Well have him call me if he’s willing to share that in some way and maybe I’ll try and to get involved.

D---Uh Huh, are you allowed to have an off the record conversation with the police that would include what you heard off the record?

K---No

D---No, so you can’t even talk about, see that’s how, anyways your not allowed to talk about that.

K---That’s right

D---Oh Ok so we won’t talk about that, so anyways that’s was how I was thinking that you could have got brought in to listen to the rest of it, would be due to that, other than that I don’t know.

K---Right

D---I’ll ask them and see what they say, when it’s going to be happening I’ll call you,    your there most of the time now?

K---I’m here,

D--- We’ll see you and I’ll talk to you one more time at least.

K--- ok

D---All right

K---Ok

D---Bye

K---Thanks Bye.